TES Skyrim 0.231

[FiftyTifty]

Keep forgetting that English isn't your first language. I'll try and keep it simple.

Batching means that geometry collapsed in to bigger meshes. Instancing useless with shadows.

So batching == merging meshes in real time? If so, that's awesome. I'd worship you forever, if you managed to batch the statics in Skyrim. The draw calls are heavy on my ol' Phenom II.

Mod don't have GI yet. The other part of question is hard to understand for me, please write differently.

Apologies. Does GI take place before or after lighting effects being applied? Would like to know at which stage in rendering GI happens.

[Jafin16]

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but it's intended more as a reminder than an annoyance... Any progress or work put toward hooking TAA into the helper.dll to help alleviate the horrible ghosting problem? TAA is my favorite AA method and I can sometimes be hyper sensitive to aliasing... which I'm getting a lot of, and I don't want to resort to a third party partial fix like FXAA or SMAA. They don't do a great job and it's hooking another mod in via proxy which I don't wanna do...

EDIT: I noticed no fps change from 0.229 - 0.231 with AMD Drivers 13.10 beta something-or-other... gonna switch over to 13.11beta7 I think if it's out

[ENBSeries]

FiftyTifty
For deffered GI computed almost at the end of rendering, before transparent objects drawing. Existing lighting is untouched and just used as data for emitting.
Batching of meshes is not real time process, because it's slow. They are computed on change of position/orientation/scale or when added/deleted. In dx9 real time non cpu techniques are possible, but they degrade performance by amount of triangles drawed per second.

Jafin16
Temporal antialiasing fix is not hard to implement, but i just don't want to do it, because already know how to do this and it will ignore water and all transparent objects (most hairs too, which are important). If i'll apply to transparent objects also, hosting will be visible if such objects are on screen, don't like compromise like that.

[FiftyTifty]

I'm very intrigued by this "batching" you speak of. It sounds like a major performance booster in certain scenarios.

What is possible to be batched, for example? Things like boulders, hands or barrels?

What sort of performance impact would realtime non-cpu batching have? If there's 500,000 triangles being drawn each frame, would the impact be 50% of the framerate? Or 90%?

Sorry for the questions; my curiosity is rising.

[Jafin16]

So water and transparent objects would just be ignored without altering the appearance of water and transparent objects at all? Personally, I think that would be sufficient because, as of right now, I don't see any good AA options for use with ENB. FXAA and SMAA aren't really AA, they smudge stuff... they smudge differently, but they smudge, and FXAA is the worst. On top of it, I don't want to apply another d3d9 through the proxy... been there, done that, I'm done with it. However, EdgeAA and Subpixel AA barely touch the existing aliasing problems. I guess I could use transparencyAA but then I lose deferred rendering effects (as I understand it, it requires hardware AA as well, right?) I don't want to put you back on the anti-aliasing tracks again, you've already been down that road, but TAA has excellent quality but, because of the ghosting, it's basically useless. Almost no one is using it. If it worked even without transparent objects it would be a vast improvement over what we have (most of the aliasing I see is on fences, lamps, buildings at a distance, etc.) If it solved or even helped that, you'd be my hero.

If you really don't wanna do it, I'll stop bringing it up. It's just an effect that used to work and work quite well (v0.212 and lower that had TAA 'finished' I had no trouble, no ghosting at all. It broke at v0.213 when it no longer needed old helper mod) and now it's more or less useless except for screenshots... but that doesn't even do much as we're dealing with a still screen and it's temporal AA... Anyway, like I said, if it's not going to be done, I'll stop bringing it up. I'd just really like to see it in usable form again

Btw, water simply won't stop blowing my mind. A friend of mine just got enb for the first time and he can't stop talking about how good the water looks. It's kinda funny really. My 3d animator/modeller wife is even impressed (and it's hard to impress her with games...) Thanks Boris! I did not expect to write a novel here... but... well... there ya go. I better stop now It's really late here, I need sleep.

[taleden]

I don't see any good AA options for use with ENB. FXAA and SMAA aren't really AA, they smudge stuff... they smudge differently, but they smudge

Is there any anti-aliasing algorithm in the world that doesn't smudge stuff? I mean, that's fundamental problem that anti-aliasing is addressing, right? The pixels on your monitor are square. No matter what you do to the image before drawing it, the pixels are still square. So if you don't want to notice those square pixel edges everywhere there's a diagonal edge between very different brightnesses or hues, you have to smudge them into eachother. But maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying.

Now if you were talking about bloom, then I'd be right there with you. Every bloom shader I've seen used in any ENB looks awful to me because it just blurs the whole screen, like a greased lens effect. I tried tinkering with the shader code myself but couldn't do any better so I've just turned bloom entirely off in my ENB profile because I think the game looks better without it.

[MOTOSXORPIO]

ENB Vsync wasn't working for me either until I added iPresentInterval=1 to [Display] in Skyrim.ini, for whatever reason.

Cuz this is exactly how its supposed to work. See bottom of page three, this thread.

[ENBSeries]

FiftyTifty
Performance depends from cpu, if it's Intel, then about 2000000000 polys per second when batched on gtx660. If it's AMD, then about 550000000. If real time batching, then 2-3 times slower. But i can't prognose performance impact, the game not heavily dependent from poly count. Batching probably the same as "static batching" in some game engines, applied to geometry which have very minor difference, but the same vertex format. Hard to make for other objects without sources, but relatively simple for shadows.

Jafin16
All you said is correct. Well, i'll think about temporal antialiasing again.

[Oyama]

Boris
Agreed with Jafin16 about all this. I'm happy enough with post AA solutions only because I'm downsampling.... I hate FXAA. I only use SMAA on top of downsampling.
Temporal AA is still the best solution, but sadly I can't use it because of SLI...
Just to clarify : why your TAA isn't SLI compatible (I understand why temporal and SLI AFR methods aren't, technically), but TXAA methods used in some games (Crysis3 f.e.) is ?....
What's the difference between them ?

[SamEkinci]

I also agree with Jafin's point on TAA and I am glad to hear you will consider it again.

In comparison, I feel it is by far the best AA method available for Skyrim. I also have tried SMAA along with SubPixelAA and EdgeAA, none of them increase quality as well as TAA, even when combined together. Not to mention they cost as much if not more performance.

Too the point where I no longer use any of the AA options included in ENBseries, and be forced to use SweetFX with injFX along with sharpness tricks by Kyo. Even then it does not look as good in my humble opinion.