TES Skyrim 0.251

[Tuoni]

offtop: i'm very addicted by FF14 atm and trying to finish story line to relax a little. strange game, i don't have that cool feeling of the best singleplayer games when played in the past, but rather like food. hope this will end soon.

Before:

After fighting with some stupid game bugs i played till player level 10 to understand in general what is it. Just another mmo, the same time wasting idiotic gameplay which have nothing in common with all things i like in 3d games. The only reason i've played 12 hours is because i like ff12 and this game style is similar, the characters looks good (so i should come to each player and ask "hey, could you please pose to me, i like how your character looks like?"). But i almost never paid an attention to graphics, texts and map - all i see. Don't think that somebody else have some differ play style if gameplay is that kind. I better play single player japanese games to get much more fun and story, FF14 seems good only to kill time when feel depressed and don't want to do anything. Now i'll create new topic where all mmo requests unsupported. Sorry, but this genre leads to degradation of players and wasting natural resources to feed them.

and

Okay, i played 4 days and reached level 34. Game have some very nice designed and modelled locations and of course characters are nice, but it's all boring after you visit all locations. Those who play it are not screen archers and nobody bother with graphics in there. Why do i think so? Because nothing to do in it on practice. These are simplest forms of rpg and to play them long you need specific mind or to be single person without life. Guys and girls, go earn money in reality and seek for friends, don't waste the time for mmorpg, at least with their current state.

I know totally off topic but find it quite amusing

[Phinix]

Just have to chime in here. What style games you play is a matter of personal preference, but there is nothing different from a single player gamer and an MMO player. In fact, MMO players that organize guilds and raid and socialize on voice chat are usually functional professionals that enjoy it as a modern chat room and digital theme park. Definitely NOT creating a generation of degenerates. It is just like any other ENTERTAINMENT. Just because some drooling potatoes soak up whatever reality TV garbage the networks are putting out doesn't mean EVERYONE with a Netflix subscription is a degenerate.

Oh, and also it might surprise you to learn that of the natural resources that we are actually in danger of running short on (precious metals mostly), FOOD, WATER, and SHELTER are NOT among them. In fact, we have enough of these things to feed and shelter and provide clean water and medicine to the ENTIRE WORLD, several times over. Instead, we hoard and throw MILLIONS OF TONS of food into landfills every year in America because of pig headed corporate greed.

"If you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." That is the mantra of our human greed that wants to monopolize needs in an era of abundance, so that you NEED to work for their mafia to SURVIVE. It is disgusting human failure from our ancient past and it is EVIL, but it is all these creatures ever learned how to be. "But first, the aristocrats." Maybe when they are immortal they will finally CALM DOWN and overcome that latent weakness and FEAR of being out of control but for now, they are groping control freaks that NEED to make others into slaves.

Don't believe some authoritarian propaganda, the greatest threat to world sustainability and prosperity in the modern world isn't running out of food to feed the gamers, its the same age-old HUMAN VANITY AND GREED. There are more important things in life than money, or breeding more army drones for a corrupt war-mongering or profiteering regime, in spite of what the greedy swine that profit off it would have us believe.

Make friends, have ENOUGH money sure, but don't fixate the meaning of your life on your job or the THINGS you own. You will just end up saving for something your entire life that you never have the time to actually take off and enjoy, and will look back and see all you were is another worker drone. The most important thing in this life to learn is to be happy, and to learn to choose to be good people.

[CruNcher]

Phinix this is a quiet complicated topic what i can say the addiction potential is huge and the industry counts on it i saw a lot of people forgetting about their lives (students with brains) when wow started

And it has some kind of social impact in the long term we don't see it yet, achievements where also developed based on the psychological effects of addiction and the relation to "being better then someone else, competitive parts in our behavior" by the industry in the first way those who develop these things doesn't care about potential social impacts they only care about the short term value in making profits with them.
Where do you think are good Psychologist these Days employed @
Top payed Psychologist working in Advertising and also Game Publishers slowly like to employ them more and more.

And yes some people in the industry even handle Games like Drugs with VR we will see the next evolution in this quite problematic space and how society will handle it.

The best way to protect your insanity from this yourself is to be aware of it all the time, though you will always some times gonna fall for it in VR even for Hours in the Future but your consciousness is aware of the abuse that's the important part in not loosing yourself and who you are

I suggest you to read TekWar by Bill Shatner & Ron Goulart it's Sci-Fi of course but it's not far from what could happen in the Future in Real @ least we are aware of it

You never have to believe but you have to be aware of it

[Phinix]

I agree, it is a slippery slope. But really, it comes down to one essential failed strategy we must guard against incessant attempts to see take root. At it's core, this recipe-for-failure psychology goes something like this:

"It is more profitable in the short term to beat people down, dumb them down, enslave them, and force them to buy CRAP, than to invest minimally in a foundation that encourages them all to PRODUCE QUALITY."

[Phinix]

Sorry to indulge in off-topicness, and also I sincerely apologize if I in any way offended, master Boris. Twas not my intention!

I was working again the other day on updating my own humble config and ran into a familiar limitation you might consider for a future release, regarding configuration of interiors. It was actually the fog anchor concept that got me thinking on it, but I have also attempted in the past (with limited success) to edit interiors separately in the CK for this reason.

I speak of how there seems to be several distinct TYPES of interiors in the game, with very different lighting conditions. A few that spring to mind are of course the regular interiors that are used in most buildings, towns, etc. Then you have caves, and SNOW caves, mines though they tend to be similar to caves, Falmer zones, and Dwemer ruins. There are others but these are the major ones used in 90% of world interiors. Getting one to look right results in glowing nuclear snow in another and pitch black shadows in another, etc.

The idea I had is very much like the current weather system, only NOT for weathers but for interiors, and for enbeffect.fx.ini (the config files for enbeffect.fx inside the enbseries folder. Specifically, it would be EXTREMELY helpful to be able to create templates for each of these interior color and lighting "schemes". As I see it this would require one master file like _weatherlist.ini (call it _interiorlist.ini), and then individual files that would contain the names of all the interior cells that were "tagged" from the in-game editor to a certain one of these templates, and the settings for that template. Then whenever that cell loaded, the helper mod would load the enbeffect.fx.ini values from whatever file that cell belonged to, or the defaults if not tagged.

Instead of using a separate ID for each interior, create static ID's the mod author could name. So, the _interiorlist.ini file could start off something like this:

Code: Select all

_interiorlist.ini

[INTERIOR001]
InteriorID=001
FileName=ExampleNameCave.ini
[INTERIOR002]
InteriorID=002
FileName=ExampleNameIceCave.ini
[INTERIOR003]
InteriorID=003
FileName=ExampleNameBuilding.ini
[INTERIOR004]
InteriorID=004
FileName=ExampleNameFalmer.ini

Then, the individual files would look something like this:

Code: Select all

ExampleNameCave.ini

[INTERIORLIST]
CaveCellNameFromHelperMod01
CaveCellNameFromHelperMod02
...

[ENBEFFECT.FX]
(settings for this interior template)

The in-game editor would need a feature added to tag the current interior with a template number. Once "tagged" the helper mod would grab the cell name and append it to the [INTERIORLIST] section of whatever named file is in that position. So, in the example, if you tagged the current interior as 001 (possibly from a drop-down menu for ease of use), the name would get appended to ExampleNameCave.ini. From that point on, the in-game shader editor window would display and modify values from this file instead of enbeffect.fx.ini.

Of course the option to "tag" a cell would only be available when in an INTERIOR cell.

I know is sounds complex, but it really just involves the use of some clever regular expressions and minor modifications to the shader value loader routines, and it would be a HUGE improvement for config authors. Right now, it is basically impossible to get interior shader values that look correct for all of these diverse interior cell environments.

To pre-empt a likely response to just "modify the cells in the CK" I already tried that, and I found that while this does allow SOME improvement the reliance on an .ESP file was cumbersome and put many users off, and also there simple weren't enough options in the image spaces to really have the desired effect without editing individual light sources as well for every cell in the game, which is an impossible task for most config authors. I did it, to an extent, then abandoned the project as too time consuming to maintain with each new feature upgrade.

The system I have outlined would be simple, and allow any mod author to click assign cell tags to have templates for shader settings. Just a though, I hope you might consider it. I would be happy to lend my own novice programming skills to the cause, FWIW.

[Aiyen]

To pre-empt a likely response to just "modify the cells in the CK" I already tried that, and I found that while this does allow SOME improvement the reliance on an .ESP file was cumbersome and put many users off, and also there simple weren't enough options in the image spaces to really have the desired effect without editing individual light sources as well for every cell in the game, which is an impossible task for most config authors. I did it, to an extent, then abandoned the project as too time consuming to maintain with each new feature upgrade.

Guess I will try to play the devils advocate here then!
The issue with .esp´s is always going to be an issue, but it is also always going to be required!

Even with what you describe... which can be done between the lighting templates, image spaces and cell edits. Then you ultimately are going to need these anyways! If the base you tweak upon is not good then no amount of ENB tweaking is ever going to make it universally epic.
This is why ELE is so good for ENB... you have the same base for just about everywhere so you know when you make one location look good they all follow... up to a per cell point. There is always going to be issues with the lighting being off here and there.

Now as long as you dont do cell edits, then if people have a problem with the .esp then that is in my opinion just too bad... since it is really easy to patch for, and in most cases not even required if placed properly.

That said then since we have ELE then it would be nice to have the option to make a certain subset of interiors have their own ini. But as I have understood it then it is not possible to detach the interiors from the weather settings... hence it would be a retarded amount of complex ini file one would need to maintain! Compared to just make people use an .esp with essentially the same result at the end of the day then I know what I would pick!

[prod80]

Skyrim alone has 121 Dungeons, that excluding other special Interiors, Towns and Cities and Interiors under Cities (Crypts, etc)
Now add Dawnguard and Dragonborn on top with all the specials, cities and towns and I suppose you are talking around 400-500 "tags" to be made

I hope you're kidding?

You can basically code your way around it for Interior spaces so that dark is never black and white is never nuclear bright. With help of ELE it becomes even easier...

[number6]

Prod 80, I think that it is a great idea! It's one that I actually suggested way back in the 0.159 thread. Here's what was said:

number6:
Hi Boris,
I was wondering if the ENB Reference Assister mod could eventually be used to get around the problem where if deferred shadows is off you can't detect interior/exterior? I don't know if it just provides coordinates or if you can get the actual location the player is in. If you can get the location then maybe there is just some kind of hash table to identify it as interior/exterior and then enb can use that instead of detecting the sun shadows like I think you are currently doing. It might also be cool to have custom settings per location too. What do you think?
Thanks!

Boris' respone

number6
Current reference helper mod is only working (not always) to retrive world space position, but interior or exterior can be signaled too i guess. But enbseries developed only for deffered prepass shadows and i'll never change any single line of code to support forward shadows rendering, these are completely different shaders which don't know and don't want to learn, no effects like detailed shadows, no sky lighting. About custom setting per location - no problem, but who will do this? Me or that guy how decided to help and stuck on weeks with this damn engine?

This was with the old helper dll, so I assume this will work better with the current one. I guess we have the answer as to who will do it. I think if it's easy to setup in-game as you describe, it would be something that many would find useful and would certainly be faster than doing it in the CK. I know that I am constantly tweaking values only to re-tweak for a different interior. It would be great if those location tweaks were saved.

Thanks

[prod80]

number6
Just use ELE interior lighting, it will normalize all interiors in Skyrim and interiors which are naturally brighter (skylight in caves, houses, etc) are a bit brighter than down dark dungeons. It makes ENB tweaking 100x easier simply to have ELE in your load order after your preferred lighting mod, whichever that might be. Give it a try... you'll find that ambient light intensity in dark dungeons wont (hardly) work anymore, but in towns it will. You can adjust everything globally with enbeffect concerning interiors. It's very easy and looks very nice. The biggest problem maker in interiors are lighting mods altering the Image Spaces, which have been made to provide realism without the use of ENB. But with the use of ENB things change and a lighting mod not made with that in mind may cause certain locations to just blackout while everything else looks fine... simply because one sets the lighting in ENB below what is intended by the author who changed those image spaces...

[number6]

Thanks for the info. I recently installed your Serenity with all of your recommended mods, so I now have ELE. I haven't really played much with it yet, but that's encouraging what you say about ELE's constitency. Are you saying that ELE also alleviates the TYPES problem (i.e. glowing ice caves) ?

Even with of the improvements that ELE makes, it would still be really nice to to customize locations. Everyone's tastes are different and one of ENB's main attractions is the level of control it gives users and preset authors. Adding per location customization in the same style as the weather implementation would really bring ENB to the next level and remove one of it's few frustrations. The ENB weather system is really starting to get used now (big thanks to you Prod80 and other preset authors for that) and I think a location system would be prolific even quicker.

One thing I would suggest for the implementation would be to forgo the static IDs you suggested and instead use something very analogous to the _weatherlist.ini. Assuming that enbhelper is able to provide the string for the current location, maybe something like this would work?

Code: Select all

_interiorlist.ini

[INTERIOR001]
InteriorIDs="BleakFallsBarrow01", "BleakFallsBarrow02", "ShroudHearthBarrow01", "ShroudHearthBarrow02"
FileName=Interiors_Barrows.ini
[INTERIOR002]
InteriorIDs="Bleakcoast Cave", "Duskglow Crevice"
FileName=Interiors_IceCaves.ini
[INTERIOR003]
InteriorIDs="KynesgroveBraidwoodInn", "WindhelmCandlehearthHall"
FileName=Interiors_Inns.ini