TES Skyrim 0.251

[keithinhanoi]

@Boris

Well, ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is good only for certain things and when memory manager enabled, it almost useless.

When you say "memory manager" are you talking about:

1. Your ENBoost dynamic memory allocation features using enbhost.exe (enabled with speedhack=true & ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true in enblocal.ini)
....or...
2. Your alternative video memory manager (enabled with DisableDriverMemoryManager=true in enblocal.ini)


@snsmac

Noob-Question:Does "Removed ExpandSystemMemoryX64" mean, that skyrim can not use more than 3.1 gb ram anymore?

The ExpandSystemMemoryX64 has absolutely nothing to do with giving Skyrim (a 32-bit application) access to a full 4GB memory address space. That already happened some time ago, when Bethesda released the Skyrim v1.3.10 patch, and TESV.exe was updated to be an LAA (Large Address Aware) application.

With that update to v1.3.10, Skyrim was then able to access the full 4GB memory address space available on x64 (64-bit) systems.

However, for x86 (32-bit systems), even if an application is LAA, it is still limited to using only 2GB of memory. You can only increase that to 3GB (as Boris has mentioned many times) by increasing the systems' virtual addressing space.

In Windows 7, this is done by setting the user virtual addressing space (UserVA) 3GB using bcdedit. Specifically, you need to enter

Code: Select all

bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072

in an elevated command prompt. Using this method to increase the memory programs can access in 32-bit windows is something that involves risks and should be done with extreme caution, so look these things up in Google and read about it before trying it.

Anyhow, the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature basically allows for larger blocks of memory to be allocated - inside TESV.exe's memory address space - thus reducing memory fragmentation, and will "free up more system memory" on x64 (64-bit) systems to make use of the full amount of memory available to TESV.exe.

Despite this, ExpandSystemMemoryX64 does not allow TESV.exe to access beyond its 3.1GB cap - that's essentially locked because Windows system processes must take up that last .9GB (again, if you are running it in 64-bit Windows). So ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is an optimization feature, best used with 64-bit systems, but doesn't give Skyrim any additional access to memory.

Since Boris is probably using the equivalent of IncreaseUserVA with his x86 Win XP system (setting the /3GB Startup Switch), he created the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature because on his system it helps TESV.exe to use the memory address space more efficiently. He shared it with everyone because he knew it would also probably also help things for people with 64-bit windows. (Boris - please correct me if I'm wrong here!)

Maybe that was a longer answer than you expected, but it is obvious that a lot of people have had the wrong idea about what the ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature/setting does.... or maybe I should say did.

[Oyama]

Boris
Well, straight, I'd vote for restoring it If ever.

[0z9x8c7v]

Alright, with lastest 0.251 that removed ExpandSystemMemoryX64, I've got some CTDs, freezes and ILS s Back as I expected.
All memery related I believe, haven't install any mod that add/alter scripts since my last reinstall of skyrim not very long ago, just some meshes/textures sort of things.
I don't have any CTD or ILS or freezing at all with ENB and SKSE 1.6.16 btw. and strangely SKSE 1.7.0 alone got me a lot of CTDs, while SSME works fine even with ENBBoost.

So I must say I will go with Oyama on this one, Boris. It's not ENB's fault, like that loading bug I've been bothering you with. Just bring that parameter back plz.

[NodusCursorius]

prod80

People are just starting all kind of (flame war) threads everywhere (again) about it being removed (which I was afraid of) without actually just loading the game without the feature enabled.

Ok, I spoke too soon, I get some exterior CTD on game loads

That first quote works both ways.

Just having a go at you! Love and respect your work on the CoT Weather Patch.

[Tuoni]

Ok, I'm a total n00b i know..

ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature basically allows for larger blocks of memory to be allocated.

Isn't that what the whole memory patch is about, allocate large(er) memblocks to get less CTD's.
What is the max size for those memblocks with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled, does it have any influence on the max size of the memoryblocks at all?

Personally i find it curious that i read/hear more stories about Skyrim CTD's after ExpandSystemMemoryX64 is removed then I heard before ExpandSystemMemoryX64 got removed.
Even more because the people who have CTD's issues now after the function is removed are considered a lot more knowledgeable by the Skyrim mod community then the 2 or 3 people who were screaming about CTD's before the function got removed.

I accidentally perma deleted my old .251 dll while changing ENB presets... me sad panda
Guess i will have no choice to experience first hand if my Skyrim will be as stable without ExpandSystemMemoryX64 enabled as it was before with it enabled. *fingers crossed*

[prod80]

prod80

People are just starting all kind of (flame war) threads everywhere (again) about it being removed (which I was afraid of) without actually just loading the game without the feature enabled.

Ok, I spoke too soon, I get some exterior CTD on game loads

That first quote works both ways.

Just having a go at you! Love and respect your work on the CoT Weather Patch.

I dont care, I have both Binaries... the previous 251 I have zero issues, hell, havent seen a CTD or ILS for ages. New 251 gives me CTD on exterior world loads in heavy area's (fixed saves I use for setting up ENB) and ILS switching to exterior and CTD going from an "light" loaded cell into heavier cells. I just write what I notice. That I didnt test well enough the first time is my mistake. Im not going to start or participate in the more "heated" discussions going on. And this is all I will write about it.

I vote for the feature to return... people that have problems with SKSE or some mod because of it can simply set it to false and deal with the consequences.

[Oyama]

people that have problems with SKSE or some mod because of it can simply set it to false and deal with the consequences.

Said it all.

[pangallosr]

Well, thought I would go ahead and see what happens if I set the parameter to false, before downloading and installing.
Lots of stutters, momentary freeze with fps dropping from 45 to 10 then back up. Happened about a dozen times in about 3 minutes (exteriors). Then CTD.
Reset the expand X64 to true, restarted game save, went through the same area (Whiterun plain), NO issues.
Using: Stable Ugrids to Load (7)
SKSE 1.7a (memblocks 768 and 256)
Windows 7 (x64) Home Premium
i7 3770(non K)
16gb @1600
GTX 680OC 4GDR

Unless I'm missing something, I need the line.
This could be a serious issue for enb authors that told their patrons to do download the current binaries.

Hopefully this will get sorted out, or I get directed to a fix for my game. Until then, I will need to continue using the 17 Feb .251.
If not, I may as well pull my presets.

[keithinhanoi]

Quote:
ExpandSystemMemoryX64 feature basically allows for larger blocks of memory to be allocated.

Isn't that what the whole memory patch is about, allocate large(er) memblocks to get less CTD's.
What is the max size for those memblocks with ExpandSystemMemoryX64 disabled, does it have any influence on the max size of the memoryblocks at all?

As I understand it, ExpandSystemMemoryX64 changes dynamic memory allocation in TESV.exe, while sheson's fix changes hard-coded (or "static") allocations. That's why sheson's source code patches exact numbers in the TESV.exe binary, while Boris' code modifies a memory allocation routine.

Also, in the case of sheson's patch, it is very specifically avoiding a situation leading to 100% repeatable CTDs for a lot of people when TESV.exe tries to allocate more memory for the initial heap (block 1). The goal of Boris' routine is to make memory allocation more efficient and use the whole extended address space available to TESV.exe on 64-bit systems (and 32-bit systems with the "tweaks" I mentioned in my previous post.)

Make sense?

Now, as far as the incompatibilities with the SKSE 1.7.0 alpha are concerned, the only way that the SKSE 1.7.0 alpha can be isolated as having issues with ExpandSystemMemoryX64=true is to not use the SKSE implementation of sheson's memory patch (so not include settings in skse.ini) and instead use SSME to implement sheson's patch. If a lot of people are seeing a big difference in stability, then we can make an educated guess there is something else in SKSE 1.7.0 besides its implementation of sheson's memory patch fix which is causing problems.

There's only one way to find that out - community testing - and someone would have to collect data that correlates to version of windows and other factors. Not an easy task. But without using good troubleshooting practices to rule out different possible factors, then we will collectively get nowhere in figuring it out.

I don't think anyone wants to see a new version of SKSE that actually causes instability when used with ENB/ENBoost, so it's in everyone's best interest to find out if it really does have incompatibility with some ENBoost features, and report that back to the authors.

Boris is clearly at the end of his rope on this, so it would have to be somebody else who collects people's findings. I really really would like to help, but I just do not have the time for such a "project". Anyone else here interested - in the name of progress and "peace"?

[electricsheep26354]

I would also like to vote for re-instating ExpandSystemMemoryX64

The combination for ENB memory management and Sheson's patch (or SKSE's which I'm now using without issue) have given me (and lots of others) 100% stability at previously unattainable settings.

Please leave in, it was disabled by default anyway, so users that have issues can just leave it off

May thanks - looking forward to your next update..